To beta or not to beta?

[azziria]

Interesting discussion over at powrhug's journal about a comment someone made about never reading a fic if the author didn't use a beta.

Personally, I never use a beta and never have.

Why don't I use one? If I'm honest, the main reason is largely due to insecurity and to not wanting to be a nuisance by asking anyone to do it (yes, I have issues, want to make something of it?).

There's also a big issue for me of the fic being *my* work and *my* ideas - I don't actually want anyone else's input. That's not arrogance, it's more that what I write for work isn't *mine*, it's a framework for many other people to hang their ideas off, so it often gets ripped to bits and changed over and over. My fanfic is the only thing I write that is mine and mine alone, and that I can do with as I will. (I do enjoy knocking fic ideas around with the like-minded, though!) If I were going to use a beta, it would have to be someone pretty much on my wavelength, and I don't know how easy that would be to find.

Plus, once a fic is done I want to post it and get it out of the way, I don't want it hanging around.

Of course, I write and edit (technical/medical stuff) for a living, so I'm pretty confident in my spelling and grammar. I'm also picky as hell. I'm not saying nothing ever gets through (the occasional British spelling or term, maybe), but on the whole I'm happy with what I post. I can't stand to read badly-spelled or grammatically-poor writing, and I pride myself that what I turn out isn't either of those.

But I don't make a big deal about announcing that I didn't use a beta for a fic. I have confidence that readers will judge by reading my work. If they don't like it, they can close the window, move on and avoid me in the future.

Comments

[wickedtruth.livejournal.com]

I tend to self beta, or maybe get a friend to read for typos if it's a short fic, say 2,000 words or so. Anything over 5,000 automatically gets a beta. Anything over 10,000 will get two betas, if I can find them.

Finding good betas, people you can trust and, possibly more importantly, who you are compatible with, is difficult. I don't think everyone needs a beta and honestly, I've seen stories that have apparently been betad that are still full of typos and mistakes.

I certainly wouldn't pass a fic by just because it's not been betad. I think you run the risk of missing some awesome stuff by doing that.

[sofiamor.livejournal.com]

Good post, I read it with much interest :) Though I do use beta, and it's best with the people on the same wave. In LJ, I did find some. But it's truly difficult (about not wanting bo be a nuisance and some more things that you said).
Going to put a link to this in my LJ, if you don't mind :)

[shinysylver.livejournal.com]

I commented over at the other post that my long stuff I find a beta for but other things I don’t usually. If one of my good fandom friends is available I may get my shorter stuff looked at but that is all dependent. Most of the time when I finish a piece I want to purge myself of it by posting.

I know I make the occasional mistake but I can usually find most errors by reading through it a few times myself. My grammar and punctuation aren’t perfect but if I can’t edit a short fic to the point where there are no glaring errors then my parents need to get a refund on my BA and my MLIS degrees. Seriously.

There have been times when a beta was a requirement and I had to get one on short notice. One of those times, I then had to go back through and fix all of the “corrections” they made. And by corrections I mean they dropped the ALL of the “hads” changing Past Perfect to simple Past Tense making no sense at all. *sigh*

So yeah, a good beta is great but a bad one is worse than none. I think it all depends on the writer.

[ariadnes-string.livejournal.com]

It's an interesting issue--and I can completely understand why you don't. I would never not read a fic just because it isn't beta'd (I know plenty of excellent writers who never use betas)--but I absolutely will stop reading if the writing is too messy, or there are too many unmotivated POV shifts (something I hate).

I sometimes use a beta and sometimes don't. Like you, I write for a living, and I'm not worried about my grammar or spelling. If it's something short--in a genre or fandom I'm confident in--I don't. Or, on the opposite side of the spectrum, if it's some kind of porn I feel very self-conscious about and can barely admit to myself I've written ;). If it's a longer story, or something I'm less comfortable with in terms of characterization, then I usually do try to find somebody to read it through.

I think it's good to find somebody on your wavelength, but it's also good to have someone who's eye you trust who isn't swept away by the kinds of things you are, to sweep a cooler eye over the project. The person who's been beta'ing my Sherlock fic lately, for instance, is great at pointing out when I've gotten sucked into my protagonist's mental state, and have forgotten why everybody else is there :)

I also do a lot of beta'ing for people--mostly because I can't stand the idea of fic not getting the readers it should because of non-native-speaker issues or tense shifts. I've come to realize that most people really want a test audience--to hear what works best about the story--before they put it out there. Most fanfic writers want to write and post fast (myself included)--so I totally get that--

I hardly ever have things Brit-picked though (though I sometimes use the Sherlock brit_pick com)--and I suppose I should....

[marquesate.livejournal.com]

The concept of a "beta" is such a strange one. Of course I use editors, I don't have a choice when getting published, and of course I use proof readers, but a "beta" who tells me what they would do? Sod that for a lark.

As for your fic, it has an excellent standard, you absolutely do not need anyone.

[kare.livejournal.com]

You and I have a lot of the same views on it I think. If I wrote 30k fic I'd use someone as a proofreader, but I don't really care if I have someone to give me feedback on what works or not. Like you I don't think that's arrogance, I just have a clear vision of what I want the fic to be/say and I probably wouldn't change it even if someone told me I should.

But then again, my "long" is 1200 words, so there's not much I can screw up in that few of words! I doubt I'd get characterization wrong in that amount of time...or drop a plot point, that sort of thing.

And like you I'm an editor in the real world. Which does NOT mean I don't make mistakes (my typeos in my posts prove that...but I don't reread my posts) but I think I have a good eye for that sort of thing after doing it for 8 - 10 hours a day for around 20 years now. Or I should! ha!

[portraitofafool.livejournal.com]

I don't use a beta and I never have. I don't feel like I need one and like you, that isn't arrogance or anything of the sort, but I do know how to spell and I'm uptight enough about punctuation that I know how to use it. I actually sometimes wonder if I'm too proper with my punctuation by the time I have something fully polished (which can be up to month after I've posted) because a lot of what I do isn't stuff that's common practice even though it is correct.

Poor grammar is only excusable if it’s used in dialog, however, grammar that is too formal in a piece of fiction can also be a drawback. The lack of contractions in some stories (amongst other things) leads to entirely too much formality/science report level stiffness, where in fiction it’s not common and not necessary; is in fact in some instances detrimental to the story itself. That sort of thing is particularly evident in dialog because it just looks wrong when a character says, “No, I do not wish to go with you to the market” when that character would’ve realistically said something more like, “Hell no, I ain’t goin’ to the store with you”.

I nitpick and that's the end of it, but I feel that I do it well on my own. I'd feel very strange if suddenly, years after I first started writing, I decided I needed a beta. I may leave out a word (in fact it is my #1 Writing Sin) but I will also catch that on a read-through and ta-da, it's all good. I actually find it easier to edit once I have something posted here on LJ; I catch things I missed reading over it in Word. It may seem odd, but it works for me.

I don't "warn" for my fics being unedited because I don't feel that I need to and for someone to say they won't read a fic that hasn't had a beta is just stupid silly. There is so much crap floating around out there that's been beta'd that there are not words for it. I actually think some of the best stories I have ever read actually didn't have beta-readers.

Also, like you and a some others on this post, I see fics occasionally that may have five (or more) betas and they're the most slapped together, poorly spelled and punctuated piles of crap I have ever seen. I think using a beta is a joke a lot of the time. Betas are test audiences more than anything, but if said "test audience" is your closest group of friends, most of them will likely lie and tell you it's perfect when it clearly is not. Obviously that is not always the case, but a lot of the time it is. I would rather edit my own work and actually correct it than have someone read it and add commas or just do nothing at all.

Bad spelling, grammar and punctuation are all things that will have me running for the hills about a paragraph in. I'm hypercritical of things like that and when I read something I want a tight, well polished and put together story; having a beta (or six) in no way guarantees that. I found a fic the other night where the second or third word was "wounded" (the author meant "wound" as in "they wound up on the couch"). There were several other massive boo-boos in that story and those are just ones I picked up skimming it. I do believe--though I can't say for certain since it has been a couple of days now--that the fic I am referring to had a beta. Great job, beta! *headdesk*

I do edit for a couple of people, one person almost exclusively and she wound up asking me to do that for her because I was the only one who did anything. When I edit, I do nothing more than basic spelling, grammar and punctuation. I will also break run-on sentences because when you've got a sentence that's a paragraph long... it needs to be broken. I will not pick a storyline apart or anything like that unless I am specifically asked to do so or there's a plot hole in it the size of the Grand Canyon then I may point that out.

So, yes, I really don’t understand why someone would refuse to read a story that had not been beta-read because that really means absolutely nothing from everything I have seen.

/ramble

[mickeym.livejournal.com]

To beta or not to beta, indeed. *g*

But I don't make a big deal about announcing that I didn't use a beta for a fic.

A WORLD OF YES TO THIS.

I think the thing that bugs me -- and often will guarantee that I don't read a story -- isn't whether someone used a beta or not, but that they felt an overwhelming need to broadcast it. "NOT BETA'D SORRY". Or something like that.

Why say anything at all? I generally thank my betas in my notes, but not always because I have a couple of friends who don't want to be named, which is their decision. So I just don't say anything either way. I don't think anything of it if it's not mentioned at all, but when someone goes out of their way to advertise, or tacks on the "Not beta'd because this is just for fun, and I'm not taking it seriously" line that I've seen around in various formats, well. If they don't want to take it seriously, it's not up to me to try and change their mind, but I'm probably not going to waste my time. It could be the best damn story ever written...but headers/author notes are not the place to be copping an attitude.

People didn't use to broadcast about their betas (or lack thereof). At least I'm pretty sure they didn't. I've been writing and posting fanfic online since 1996, and it's only been in the last five or six years that I've really noticed it's become some kind of trend. Maybe it's newer fans? I don't know.

Ugh, I'm sorry, what was the question again? *sheepish look*

[alba17.livejournal.com]

Interesting topic. I don't usually bother with a beta for shorter things. However, I'm really insecure about my writing and I always think it sucks, so I like having someone else read it over. I'm not worried about grammar, etc., more about creative stuff, although it's nice to have a 2nd eye catch things like repeated words. It can be really nervewracking, especially if the person just jumps to the negative and doesn't find something positive to say. Because then I assume they don't like it at all and it's really terrible. I've also had betas who didn't give me any useful feedback at all and that's frustrating, when I know there are things that can be improved.

I don't know why people announce they didn't use a beta. I assume if one isn't listed, there wasn't one. I've had the same experience of reading something that was beta'd, and honestly, you can't tell, what with all the typos and grammatical errors. I agree with the comment above that the big announcement of not having a beta is more of a red flag to me than simply not listing one. Because obviously there are people like you who are perfectly competent, write brilliantly and don't use a beta.

[alamo-girl80.livejournal.com]

I think using a beta/editor is a personal choice. If you feel you have a good enough handle on things, especially in long fics, go for it.

I know how to spell and have a generally good handling of grammar and such, but when I write, I write like a rainstorm - all at once to get it all out on paper. Of course there will be typos and homonym errors (they KILL me) but often, I don't want to sit and go through it all. I've spent 2 days writing something in the snippets of time I have allotted, I don't want to spend more time when I have a beta friend who will do it for me.

Now, knowing stuff and knowing it WELL are two distinct things and I know where my writing weaknesses lie. That's why I'll always have a beta. I hate rereading my work and seeing little stupid mistakes that people have sometimes pointed out in comments and have to go back and change them. ( the obvious exception would be using a foreign language slang like pidgin)

I guess I'm used to having my stuff ripped apart because in my graduate fiction classes, that's exactly what happened. We were forced to sit there, not say a word while the professor and the class took our story apart piece by piece. Nerve-wracking? Oh yes. Did I learn from it? Hell yes.

Now having someone TELL me what to do in fic? Not really. I like having in-script comments where my beta will ask why something was done, or give a suggestion of how to clarify, but I always view beta comments as guidelines, not rules. If I think I got my point across the way I wanted, I leave it. I've never had someone tell me, "change this and do it THIS way" in a beta before.

Knocking about ideas? Those are the best. Especially with taking the characters to different places than I'm used to writing. I love it when a friend has an idea that I never even thought of, a new way of seeing the character or the plot and the merging of like minds, as you say. As always, if someone helps me in anyway, I give them credit at the beginning of the story.