A question

[azziria]

Reading discussions on various boards about the introduction of the new female character on Hawaii Five-0 has got me thinking: What makes you like a character on a show who is not of the gender you're sexually attracted to? Which characters appeal to you and which don't, and why?

I've seen the opinion stated that Lori Weston was added to appeal to the male viewers; I've also seen it stated that she was added to increase the show's attraction for female viewers. Personally I find her just that little bit too perfect and doll-like to appeal to me as a female viewer, although I suspect that it's the lack of character so far that's really making me see her like that, not her undeniable beauty. I'm not sure that I can identify too closely with a female character who is presented as completely unflawed. I like to feel that my heroines are people I'd be interested in hanging out with.

So, who do you like and why?

Comments

[portraitofafool.livejournal.com]

I um... don't really like other women as a rule. Period. Which you know. However, there are some women I do like and there are female characters I like, too. Lori Weston is not one of them. For one thing, she's not attractive to me at all and that's the 100% "I readily admit it" shallow truth of it. For another thing (and you know this already) she looks like a complete and utter bitch and I want to punch her in the face every single time I see her. When looking at someone pisses me off then we've got a problem.

She sort of embodies a lot of things I hate about women (in the general, pop culture mainstream sense) with her character because for one thing, she's not capable and even if she had the potential to be so, she's too damned skinny and not well toned enough to manage much when something actually would require upper body strength for example. Her legs look like toothpicks, too, which again says "lack of muscle tone" so there goes that, too. She's one of those bony girls that I can't stand and what people call a lollipop head--her head is bigger than her neck and it makes her look disproportionate.

The other thing about her character that I despise is that what little bit of character she has; she actually IS a complete bitch and not the cool kind. She's the snarky, borderline passive aggressive bitch that I hate on or offscreen.

Kono, otoh, really is capable, she's tough while still being believable. She's thin, but she looks healthy and has wonderful muscle tone and shape and because of all that, I can buy her being able to kick someone's ass. Jenna, I didn't like for certain reasons, but as she was around more I started liking her for other reasons though. Such as the fact she was intelligent, she was real--like I could imagine a girl like her existing outside of TV Land--and she was flawed. Neither her or Kono were/are spun glass ice queens with personalities equivalent to that of an angry piece of plywood. Nor are they a Carpenter's Dream. They look like Real People and act like them, too.

Lori just needs to gtfo. Ugh.

As for other shows, I like Alicia Florrick because she grew a spine, kicked her adultering husband to the curb and truly shows--to me--a modern woman capable of overcoming stereotypes still in place today. In fact, I like every female main on that show simply for those reasons--they all show different women with different personalities as being strong, capable and able to make it to the top in "a man's world" and do so in a believable fashion.

On SPN there haven't been many female characters I've liked simply because they fall into the pit of Cliché so, so badly. I love Missouri though and want her BACK. I like Mary Winchester--young and the ever-returning deceased version when she's not being made evil by asshat angels. I liked Pamela until they raped her characterization so hardcore in S5 and then I was DONE with her likethat. But my favorite of all would have to be Ellen; she was absolutely wonderful in every way they showed her--tough as nails and believably so and a complete bitch, but of the absolutely cool and awesome variety. And an honorable mention goes to Meg in all of her incarnations because she is forever a bad ass senorita. Otoh, I fucking CHEERED when Anna bit it and Ruby 2.0, too. Ruby 1.0 was awesomesauce. Genevieve Cortese, while a very cool and intelligent woman IRL (seems to be anyway) is a truly terrible actress and ruined the character for me. Oh well though.

And there we go. I really have no idea if I answered your questions at all. Fail? *thinks on*

[azziria.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'd forgotten Ellen - wonderful character :)

[jazzybabe56.livejournal.com]

well for me Kono was "kick-ass" from the beginning - she wasn't Barbie doll blonde - with a waif-ness about her that so many other women are like who do shows like this and then expect the audience to buy that they can kick butt and take names....

Kono can be sassy and full of fun with a twinkle in her eye but don't cross her or you might be viewing life from inside a dumpster when she is done with you --- I just buy it from her...

Jenna took some time for me to like as much as I came to - she needed to prove herself to NOT be a "plant" and at first she came off as just being quirky - which I like - she didn't try to be kick ass coz clearly she wasn't -- but at the end - woah!!!

Lori is just flat out boring - sad to say - and altho she is gorgeous I don't watch women for looks (obviously as I'm female) I look at their quality as a character - their believability as a character and how interesting said character is. I find her none of this so far.....that might change but I kind of doubt it...

for instance, I REALLY liked Alex's co-star in Moonlight - Sofie something....she was a good actress and her character was kickass even tho she was Mick's love interest...she was likeable in a very real way. Her backstory was interesting too - she actually had a very big tie in to Mick before she even knew it....in a different way....

So far Lori's big backstory is an ex-fiance and I don't really care - thats the second woman in H50 in a short space of time who has an ex-fiance for whatever reason.....sorry but zzzzzzzzzz....

Funny thing is that I LOVE Catherine - she is Steve's perfect counter-point - military, sassy, gorgeous (but not in a waif-like baby doll way) and very intelligent and knows what she wants -- definitely! Maybe she is too threatening for the male writers to write for - hence Lori.....LOL

thanx for this question - it made me sit back and think and thats NEVER a bad thing! :)

[tailoredshirt.livejournal.com]

I like Lori, although I'm still waiting to warm up to her completely. I think it will take a little more time for all of these new characters and story lines to settle down before everything starts coming together in this new season. I have seen people say that Lori is too perfect, but I think most of the characters on the show are. Steve is probably the most popular character on the show and he's a complete Gary Stu if I've ever seen one (and I say that with more love than I know what to do with some days), and I think he's there to appeal to men as much as women. Kono is pretty perfect too, and really only started showing more depth part of the way through last season. I think Lori has enough hints of flaws that I can identify with her. She's a bit too blunt, a bit nosy, and maybe some of the optimism she had for getting that girl back in 2x02 was bordering on naivete. I think it's enough to see where they go with her. I have to admit that it was the "top-off" conversation that made me smile because I hate it when waiters refill my coffee or iced tea when I've got the sugar just right. ;)

[azziria.livejournal.com]

It's interesting to hear another view of Lori, because you're seeing things in Lori that I can't, or at least not yet. I saw the bluntness and nosiness as lack of empathy or poor acting, rather than as character flaws. I think my real problem with her is that I'm not yet seeing who she is, she seems to be a patchwork of other people's skills. Maybe when I get something that I can say "Yes, that's Lori" about then I'll warm to her. I couldn't write her at the moment because I don't have a clue who she is, and yet looking back to Season 1 I felt I'd got a basic handle on the four main characters by the time we were three episodes in. I really do hope that the writers develop her character and show me what she brings to the team that no-one else can.

[gothikmaus.livejournal.com]

I've never really asked myself what makes me like a character, male or female. Since you specifically asked about female characters, I thought of the TV series I usually watch and realised I like women if I can relate to them (i.e. we are similar in some way) or if I wish I was like them.

As for Lori, as I've already said, I find her two-dimensional, so I can't really relate to her. And, sure, she's very smart and good-looking, but I don't really look up to her. I don't dislike her, but I prefer Kono or Catherine. I mean, I bet some people will say Catherine is a total Mary Sue as well, but for some reason I don't have a problem with her, maybe because she was introduced as an old friend of Steve's, someone who was already part of his life?

[verasteine.livejournal.com]

Actually, that's a really intriguing question to me. A while ago (and this is a long story, excuse if I ramble too much, tl;dr and all that) I decided to stop watching American shows and start watching only or mostly European television. One of things I found myself enjoying a lot were the rounded, interesting female characters, who weren't all size 0, conventionally pretty, or constantly objectified. When I got into H50 and ended my EU-only television streak, I was really surprised, pleasantly so, about the casting choices on the show, and it made me realise something else.

I'm incredibly allergic to actresses who meet the conventional beauty myth in the extreme. Lori Weston, or rather the actress playing her, is a prime example. When we were first introduced to Jenna, I liked that she didn't. Of course, that's not my sole basis for liking/disliking female charactes, but it helps.

I also like them being humans first and women second, and I like them competent and professional. One of the reasons why I disliked Lori hugely in the first ep she was in was that she was completely unprofessional a lot of the time, and that's extremely unrealistic. Women, especially in a male dominated field, would never get anywhere by going teary eyed over things the way she does. This idea that women = compassion is not only insulting and generalizing, it also means you won't be able to compete.

Another thing: I like my women feminist. The way Lori talks to Steve puts my hackles up (the way she talks to Danny, ditto). Gender presentation is not unambivalent on this show, but some things it does with gender is unconventional compared to other US shows, and she actually breaks that streak in an annoying fashion. I like all the other women on this show hugely, but Lori does not have anything that would make me like her, in RL or as a character for me to explore.

[azziria.livejournal.com]

It's very interesting what you say about European vs US TV because I've thought it myself about British TV vs US TV. Our shows (and our soaps in particular) have characters of all shapes and sizes, some beautiful and some not, but when I watch American shows they seem to be full of beautiful thin people.

And like you I think I have a problem with actresses (and some actors, too) who as you say meet the conventional beauty myth in the extreme. I like some quirk to my beauty.

I didn't like Lori's 'sexist' remarks, either. I find those sort of remarks just as offensive coming from a woman as coming from a man.

[kitmerlot1213.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking of all of the great female TV characters I have loved over the years: Scully from the X-Files, Buffy, Willow, Cordelia, and Anya from the Whedon-universe, Sydney Bristow from Alias, Veronica Mars from Veronica Mars, Sara Tancredi from Prison Break, Chloe from Smallville just to name a few and they all have a lot in common.

All of these women are intelligent, brave, flawed and self-aware enough to know their weaknesses, with an admirable strength of character that makes them fun to watch and cheer on. They are also played by talented and emotive actresses who are believable in their roles.

Claire Van Der Boom is a great actress who played one of the most interesting women on H50. I liked her Rachel because Claire played her as a complex woman and I was intrigued by her and Danny's relationship. I hope she comes back this season and we get to hear her side of things regarding the Stan/Danny situation.

Kono is also a great character but I can't help but feel that Grace Park hasn't quite got a handle on how to play this dimension of Kono. She seems to be rolling her eyes a lot and making annoyed faces and I think Grace needs to step it up a notch if were supposed to feel her conflict.

Lauren German isn't the greatest, but at least for me, LG can act believably as an investigator/team member--the person who played Jenna Kaye had her character's line delivery set as a perpetual teenager. I did look forward to her being evil and working with Wo Fat but that was denied us as well.